Yani: 0:27

This is you. I forgot the name of the podcast already. I can't say anything anymore. I can't say anything anymore.

Nikita: 0:34

I was told that the only way to fix the injury was to have a surgery where screws are placed in my spine.

Yani: 0:40

What Is Enlightenment?

Nikita: 0:43

Again, not a short answer. I struggled as a person of colour trying to go to spaces that would only represent white people.

Yani: 0:53

To what extent and we've talked about a little bit what extent is the Western practice of yoga appropriation?

Faustine: 0:59

I really liked what you were saying earlier about how yoga is about turning inwards whereas it seems that what we see on social media as yoga is made for for the outwards

Intro Voiceover: 1:19

Please stop all this work agenda. Its political correctness gone mad. Sorry, thought police. Such a snowflake. Surely all lives matter?

Diversifying Group: 1:29

Ah, did those sound familiar? Here on you can't say anything anymore. we'll unpack the nuances of these comments and bring sidelined lived experiences to the forefront brought to you by diversifying group.

Yani: 1:45

Hello, and welcome to this month's podcast. You can't say anything anymore. I'm one of your hosts today. I'm Yani. My pronouns are she/her and I'm a diversity and inclusion consultant at diversifying group. And today I've enjoyed with a fellow colleague and host Faust. So give us a little introduction to you. And also a little introduction to the topic we're gonna be talking today.

Faustine: 2:07

Absolutely. Hi. I'm Faust, my pronouns are she/they, I'm the head of recruitment, marketing and employer brand at diversifying group. And the topic they're talking about today is decolonizing Yoga, we have a fantastic guest. And I'm a huge fan of yoga. I've been doing it for quite a few years. So really excited to have a conversation about kind of, I guess, bringing yoga back to its roots. And our guest is the amazing Nikita, Nikita, you want to introduce yourself?

Nikita: 2:31

Yeah, so hi, I'm Nikita. I'm a yoga instructor and educator living in London. I teach yoga, but I also teach people on how to use the practice of yoga respectfully and authentically. I've been doing that for the last two or three years now. And actually, the name of the podcast is perfect for what we're going to speak about, because a lot of people do say, you can't say anything nowadays. And it's the whole point of what what we're trying to do. And like the whole movement of spirituality or consciousness being more conscious is, you can't really say much without thinking about it first anymore. So yeah.

Faustine: 3:16

Amazing. So glad to have you. to have you here. I guess, maybe let's kick things off with a very broad question. What is yoga to you?

Nikita: 3:29

So that's a very Yeah, like you said, it's a very broad question. There are a lot of answers that I could give you. And I won't say that I won't, I won't give you a short answer that you're just going to be able to, like, go away and think about because I just don't think that we could narrow it down to just one answer that it is. I'll give you the purpose of yoga, because I feel like that's more important with the context of what we're speaking about now. So the purpose of the practice is for people to be able to reach enlightenment. And that's what all the practices of yoga are used for, or were used for traditionally. And for me, personally, it is exactly that. So a lot of the times we have things in life that we might find difficult or things might come up for us, our mental health. It's a means for managing that it's a means for healing. It has so many purposes. But for me personally, it's probably a means for healing and a way of life. So the way of incorporating the ancient tradition into daily life and our daily routine, and the way that we live.

Yani: 4:54

That's just like a. So I try to go for like, tell our listeners and viewers if you're watching on YouTube, it's like a complete like intro into yoga. If you're coming from nothing i What Is Enlightenment?

Nikita: 5:10

So, again, not a short answer. And it's not a short answer, because there's not just one linear definition in yogic texts that you might read. So I feel like it is a bit of what you might feel personally. But also, what it is, is kind of reaching a place where you're kind of detached from everything in terms of the material world. And the stuff that people tend to worry about in today's world, which is extremely hard, because obviously, it's, it's hard for us to come onto a path when we're brought up in a world where we're used to, or we're, what's the word where we're accustomed to have anything, these ties with the stuff in this material world? And we've kind of getting caught up in that, if that makes sense. Yeah. reaching enlightenment means detaching yourself from this kind of worldly materials and those thoughts and feelings as as much as you can. It's a path, it's a journey. And it's a process. And it's not something that anyone, I don't know, anyone who has fully reached that place. reached that place in this lifetime. So it's exactly what yoga teachers as well, but I mean, I always say that you probably can't learn. Well, not probably you can't learn everything about yoga in one lifetime, it will probably take many lifetimes to learn what this practice is. And every time you delve into it, first of all, there's always something different that you might learn. But also, it's like a rabbit hole in any topic that you go into. So things can't just be explained in one sentence or one way.

Faustine: 7:18

Yeah, so just a really complex thing. I love what you said about you need multiple lifetimes to be able to like two minutes, that's really beautiful way to look at it. I liked how you were talking about healing before as well. And kind of like that, that journey towards enlightenment that that journey towards healing, would you be able to tell us a bit more maybe about your personal journey, and kind of the journey that you've taken to becoming a yoga educator, and I guess the journey that you are still on as well.

Nikita: 7:46

So yeah, so I came onto the path of practising yoga as we know it in the West, after I participated in a skydive about nine years ago now. And I ended up injuring my lumbar spine. So I was told that the only way to fix the injury was to have a surgery where screws are placed in my spine and a disc was is removed. But mobility wouldn't be as good as it would be before surgery. I decided not to go down that route. So I decided to seek out alternative methods of healing and a couple of friends had recommended yoga. And Yoga is a practice that we are brought up with being brought up as a Hindu and an Indian. But it's not something that you're kind of told that you're doing yoga, like when we're going up with it. Because it's not the sense that in the sense that people know today. So there are some Indian households that bring their children up with yoga, Asana, other physical postures, but my household wasn't one of those. So we, we practice the other elements of yoga. So we practice stuff, like mantra as more diverse chanting. So there would be a very big difference to the yoga that you see today. So to knowing about yoga in the West, or a modern day, it was also completely new to me. It's not something that I'd ever experienced. I've never been to yoga class. So yeah, I went to I didn't actually I didn't actually go to a class, probably for a good few months, I started practising on YouTube. And I found that it started to help subside some of those symptoms that the injury was causing me. And it was also helping my mental health. So I've always suffered from severe depression and from a very young age, probably the age of eight, and I've struggled to kind of find ways of coping with that. So when this practice started to help some of those symptoms as well. It made me wonder how but on the YouTube videos that I was practising with, hardly any of the teachers ever kind of explained those parts. like there'll be touched upon, but no one would ever go into detail. So yeah, that's how I began practising. And then I continued practising, I'd done a teacher training in Thailand, occur after maybe a year of practising, right to be able to help people the way that yoga had helped me. And when I came back from Thailand, I started, I kind of had that itch to start teaching Australia, not knowing that I probably wasn't aware of all of the kind of ways that you're really prohibited from teaching it as a new teacher in the yoga industry. Because, one, you don't have experience having that 200 hour training is not going to be enough for you to go ahead and like, just start training, teaching in like the biggest gyms or biggest. And to just didn't have enough experience from that training I ever so although you're spending 200 hours, like I said, the practice of yoga, like you won't even know everything about it probably in this one lifetime. So yeah, way that the teacher trainings churn out, like 1000s and 1000s of teachers each year. How kind of a little bit of another issue, because, yeah, people just going out there and may not, who may not necessarily be super confident in teach the practice, or a lot of those trainings, don't teach it in its most authentic form. So it's not to say that all of them, they probably do. But yeah, I was one of those people that just thought, yeah, I can go and teach. And I struggled. Yeah. While and I didn't only struggle, because of that reason. But I struggled as a person of colour, trying to get into spaces that would only represent white people, predominantly, the token, brown person or black person. And so that went on for quite a while. And after about another year or so, I started to look into ways that I could maybe open up my own space. And so in the height of the pandemic, at a studio. And the intention was to have a place where we could eventually get people of colour to come and teach at this space, that give them a platform to stand, stand up, share their work, and also a space for people who feel excluded from usual yoga or wellness spaces to come and practice. And but because of the time that I opened it in, it didn't do so well. So we open for a year and a half. But during that time, there were a lot of lock downs. And yeah, it was tough. Yeah, limitations. So it ended up closing early last year. And which is when I started speaking about or started being more vocal about the way that things are in the yoga and wellness industry, when it comes to the bipoc community. And when it comes to the exclusion of people of colour as well, yeah. Not just people of colour, just anyone who's from a marginalised background. And I started thinking about it before I chose the studio, but I wasn't always comfortable with being so they always kind of been in the background of my practice. But again, as a person of colour, you just don't feel like you had had the right to speak up because you've got you're going into space or interviewing spaces where even still today when I speak in spaces, or festivals, where I go to there are a huge group of white people, and you just don't know how it's going to be received. Because a lot of people have that backup. And they're like, saying, I can't practice yoga, but that's, that's not the work that I do.

Faustine: 15:17

Yeah, very defensive. Like it's like a bit of a knee jerk reaction. And they Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I was wondering, you mentioned that you didn't feel comfortable speaking And at first and even to this day, you still sometimes don't feel entirely comfortable. But what kind of gave you that push to really stop talking about it and really kind of make your voice be heard about about this topic? Yeah.

Nikita: 15:41

Well, I guess it was loads of small things that kind of built up to a point where I was just like, I've had enough of like the same kind of things in this industry, brands asking you to like, work with them, or collaborate with them. And then they don't want to give you like a fair pay compared to who you might know is a is another white teacher in that space, and who is getting like, more than what you would get. But also, just the representation of the lack of people, not all brands not representing people of colour. After the problem in of yoga, and just even after seeing practices like puppy yoga, or goat yoga, or

Yani: 16:38

Bear Bear yoga, that's the one I was always like, I don't understand, even when you mark it, I still don't understand it. Yeah.

Nikita: 16:45

And, and it's funny, because a lot of people of colour, have the same reaction. They're like, why would you want to do that? And it's, it's just mostly white people that don't understand why. And that's not, I do totally understand that. There are people that really aren't aware of, of why that might be harmful to the people who come from, or from, for the culture itself. Because even right at the beginning of my journey, I might not have thought that puppy yoga was kind of disrespectful, just because I would have thought, what everyone else thinks. So it's cute. But that's why it's really important to not just look at yoga, so surface level practice, and really start to kind of research and educate yourself on what this practice actually is. It was after I started practising and teaching and realising and reading that the practice makes you turn inwards every time and that's the whole point of it to be able to heal. And so when you when you're doing this, the practices of yoga, and you're sitting yourself down, putting yourself in a position where you're going to start your practice, you're not going to really need a puppy distracting you or distracting you or you don't really want to be intoxicated. Yeah. Because it's going to take away from that focus, or it's going to take away from the purpose as well of you trying to do that inner work and that inner healing. But a lot of people still don't understand that even even if you do explain it, because they always like but why. And yeah, it's telling you from the culture, that it's disrespectful. That's why and I feel like a lot of people have a hard time understanding that

Yani: 18:47

we've got like a lot to unpack, but there's just a so much impact. And even you said that after years of like lifetimes of yoga, we're probably not going to fully understand like, Get get the enlightenment, but also I don't think even like in this one hour of recording, I think we're gonna get the full extent of like, the damage that like this life is like creating yoga. So let's just have like the big question of like, to what extent we've talked about a little bit, what extent is the Western practice of yoga appropriation? The big question

Nikita: 19:23

to quite a big extent. And it's not like I said, it's not because of people not like, it's not because of people wanting to be ignorant to it a lot of the time. You could be I mean, it happens even with people of colour sometimes as though I'm they're just not aware, like I said, but there were certain things I weren't aware of when I began my journey as well. But the The important thing is that you keep researching and looking into stuff. But yeah, in the West, it's just carried away that people have got carried away with just ask them now. And just focusing on those physical postures and using that as a way to show people that only that's yoga. And most of the time, no one else noticed that there are all these other things that are yoga, but people were yoga because they just wouldn't think that it's linked to yoga in any way. because we've got this perception in our head that yoga is just a physical practice that helps you to become more flexible or stretch. And that's the danger with cooling everything yoga nowadays as well. We can't just like keep pulling stuff yoga, when it really isn't, you really kind of narrow down the meaning of the practice. And the term and, yeah, again, whilst causing harm to people from the culture.

Faustine: 21:02

Yeah, I guess there's Have you noticed as Dennis maybe like a big thing with I guess, the world that we live in now that's very more focused on the material and things like that, that has kind of taken that yoga physicality, as as the only thing. And I really liked what you were saying earlier about how you goes about turning inwards? Whereas it seems like what we see on social media is yoga is made for for the outwards instead, I guess, do you think that maybe we've lost sight of the spirituality and the and the roots of yoga? And is there a way for, for people to get in there, get back to get back to that? Maybe like, just on a personal level, because when, like I said, I've been doing yoga for years. But at first, I really struggled with the more internal and spiritual side of things, I would hate to be an introvert. And at the end of the practice, if any listeners don't know yoga, each of us knows the pose at the end of the practice where you just lay down. And I used to hate it, because my mind would just come flooding with thoughts, and I just couldn't relax and turn inward. So I guess, do you have any tips for people who might need a way to get back to that internal focus and that spirituality? Well, there's

Nikita: 22:16

just a few things with that, actually. And one of the things is that yoga, because Yoga is a healing practice, it's not necessarily for everyone. And that's where I've got lost in the western world as well, where it's been reduced to a physical practice. And people still teach it with the basics of what it would be taught as traditionally. So they would have some of the brawny armour some of the breath work some of the bits, like shavasana incorporated in the classes, but not necessarily knowing the meaning of what are the purpose of these practices and what they actually do. So when you start looking into them, actually, shavasana isn't comfortable for everyone. And it's not something that people want to sit. And neither can meditation be sometimes, like, sometimes you don't want to sit with reports, and you don't want things to come up. So maybe just knowing exactly what you're getting into, when you are practising yoga, and again, just kind of researching into these practices, because they're not just surface level practices, it's not just laying down at the end. And that's it. There are meanings to, to each practice as well. But also, people find that their mind just likes to work likes to wander when, when they do sit still. And that's the problem, again, with kind of Western yoga pose, people are too carried away with getting into it as a physical practice, and kind of like forms of power yoga, or doing yoga for ABS or like weight loss or whatever it is. And then they're putting you in a shavasana your mind's not gonna want to sit still. Whereas traditional yoga will take you into a place where or it will be a practice where you will want to, you'll be maybe going at a slower pace, be doing incorporating more of the practices in like more diverse funders, models, mudras, which are gestures or sales, bundles, which are locks that we can use internally in our bodies and running armour, which is breath work practices. So incorporating all the elements kinds of help kind of helps you get to that stage of where you're able to maybe sit in a study position or a study seat. Yeah, as potentially actually says in his in his suit, as well. He says stellar super masculine, which trans loosely translates to being able to sit sit in a study seat for an extended period of time. That's probably the best way to describe yoga or To describe why we the purpose of Arsenal, really. And it's to reach a higher state of consciousness. So doing things in the way, the way that things are done in the West aren't necessarily always for the purpose of reaching the highest enlightenment. And that's the problem.

Yani: 25:51

So it's really interesting. You said you'd have mentioned like something that was like yoga as yoga for weight loss. How have we got to this point? Like, how is it like evolved in the like, last couple of decades, I guess, like how we got here?

Nikita: 26:08

Well, well, the practice was actually brought over to the west by a Hindu monk, whose name is Swami Vivekananda. And he had the intention of making people more spiritually aware, and more aware of practices that Hinduism, teachers and spiritual aspects of the practice too. And the core of Hinduism is yoga, and you see a lot of yoga intertwined throughout Hinduism as well. And so when he brought it over, he didn't just deliver it as one part, which is Asana, he delivered it as a whole. But people chose what they want to take from that, which were the physical postures. So as time went on, people started to kind of make their own versions of the practice. And yeah, they just started to use it as a means of exercise or as a way to gain flexibility. Obviously, just left the other bits behind.

Yani: 27:49

Yeah, I'm curious about like, your training as well. So when you did your training, what did they actually, because you've talked about lots of different parts about yoga and, and even on your social media, you've, I love how you didn't mystify yoga and your thing of one truth at a time. I absolutely love that, just like that their headline there. But what did they actually teach you during your training? Did they teach you the spiritually spiritual parts? Or did they just focus on? Yeah, well, tell us about that?

Nikita: 28:16

Yeah, they did, actually. And they did. They did teach us those. But we did have philosophy lectures, and a lot of teacher trainings are set out in that way. We did. The actual part of yoga that's important. And what we're talking about as well, which is the exclusion of minority groups, or how it's become so westernised, and what the problem is with that, and I feel like, that's really important to learn on teacher trainings. You are learning philosophy, and the other practices and the other elements of it. It is kind of focusing on or heavily focused on Asana. And, and I did feel like my teacher training did focus a lot on Asana as well. And there were there's like, a competitiveness in not just, it wasn't just on my teacher trainings, but it carried through into like the yoga and wellness industry, as we see it today as well. Yeah, social media and who can do, who can be the most flexible? Who can do the deepest backbend and who can get into the splits for a handstand. And it can be very dangerous to do yoga in that way. Because if you're a beginner to it, and you do want to get into practice, but you feel like you're not good enough, because you can't do those questions, you might just start jumping into them without any prior practice, and ended up injuring yourself.

Yani: 29:58

Yeah, that's really interesting that you said that they talk to you about like, the philosophy and also like, exclusion of different groups. No, they didn't. Oh, they didn't. Okay, sorry. I thought I really did. And I was like, That's really interesting. Because I want to say like, I just don't think people actually, yeah, otherwise, I just see when like, the demographics of like, what you usually see as a yoga instructor that comes to mind it's just, I feel like no one ever talks about that. But no, yeah, that makes that makes perfect sense. And, yeah, it's really important that it should be taught because when I if you think about, like, if well, a stereotype of a yoga instructor that comes to mind of all the things I've seen is usually like a really skinny white woman. Yeah, yeah. That's why it makes you feel uncomfortable.

Nikita: 30:44

Yeah, and that's and and it also makes white people feel uncomfortable when you Put that fact out there as well. So and what people really need to look at if that is offending you is why, why you're so kind of taken aback by that that statement when it is fact. And you can, you can go in it yourself like Google yoga, look for yoga on YouTube look for yoga on Tiktok or don't because talk is probably the worst for it. But just the hyper sexualization of it the way though it's just portrayed as a one size fits all practice. Yeah, the way that it's heavily focused on, like I said, back then split handstand, or any inversion, way that a lot of the bipoc community are excluded from and marginalised groups are excluded from the practice. And I hear about this every single day. And I hear about people being feeling excluded, excluded, because they have a larger body, and they feel like they don't have a space or a place in yoga and wellness. And it's disheartening to see because the practice really is for everyone. When you speak about the exclusion that happens in yoga, you're met with the phrase, yoga is for everyone. But it doesn't make sense, because yoga is for everyone. But then why are marginalised communities being left out of it? Yeah. So is it a case of people just thinking that white people just thinking, just not being aware of their privilege in in, in the world, I guess, because they're kind of the dominant culture.

Yani: 32:53

It's like, it's, I have like this whole, this whole rant, I will go like a step into it. But it's that exclusion, I mean, it's like just is harming people's mental health. And is, it's also the emotions, and it's also just harming people to be feel excluded, people can't heal, but I'm just, there's the other art, there's another coin to have. It's actually harming people like financially and particularly in Bali. So I'm half Indonesian. And I have seen, like the damages of yoga to Bali, and I've been there, I've been going since I was a kid, and you can just, it's just devastating. So with all the tourism, people are Yeah, they want to go to Bali, because it is a beautiful place. It's an incredible Island. And people want to go practice yoga there and do their training there. But what you're finding is that you'll have all these rich Westerners, usually like white Australians set up a retreat. And they will, they will develop buildings, they will only hire white staff, and there's only white people doing your courses. And that impact that's having on Bali is that there's overpopulation, that the infrastructure literally cannot take that you're also taking away all the labour costs and all the money away from local people. And it's been such damage that they're pricing people out of their different areas, so locals have to go somewhere else. And because it's not somewhere else, it's a bit more remote. All people don't want to go there. And they think it's a little bit dirty and unclean, so it's not fashionable. So they're still having to opt for more Western types of yoga, even though you can go with local and stimulate the local economy, and there's just taking all the money away. And it's so damaging, and it's just really upsetting. And when I do speak to people try go for local instructor, they're just like, Oh, we don't know where to go. Go go.

Nikita: 34:48

That's I didn't know that about Bali. I've always wanted to go there. And not going to places where I wanted to do a second teacher training, which I'll be doing one anymore, but

Yani: 35:00

Oh, no, do just yeah, just go honestly, barley is magical. I'm not saying no one go go. It's incredible.

Nikita: 35:06

I've heard about it being like kind of just heavily kind of commercial that commercialised over there and some of the issues that you speak about, but I didn't know, I wasn't aware about people opening up like spaces or studios and excluding the people who come from there, which is it and going back to what you said about people not knowing where to find teachers or local studios. And you can Google but we're also at a disadvantage there because we're not the best to show up on Google. And yeah, it's you would have to really be specific in your search and putting brown yoga teacher or Indian yoga teacher, then you probably get what you're looking for. But the and that's the problem with with yoga. I think as far as that we should be the first people that show up because it is a practice that comes from this culture. And it's not about me people equate what I'm saying to gatekeeping that it's not really gatekeeping. It's just, it's just kind of, we're entitled to that. And we shouldn't feel ashamed of being entitled to that. And it, although it's not a practice that, like, is anyone's in specific, but specifically, but it's, it is a practice that belongs to India, and it's on there. And I don't see why we shouldn't be at the forefront of these platforms, and why people can't find us. And a lot of people ask for resources of native teachers, and where to find them as well. Sometimes, yeah, it's nice. It's nice that you're asking but exactly what you said as well, like, you can search for them yourself. But you might just have to be more specific about how you're searching, maybe not just maybe putting in like a native native yoga teachers name or Indian yoga teachers, me it kind of goes full circle as well. Because like I said before, at the start, we're not always the best to be employed or seen in in these spaces. So you might not find a local teacher who is Indian, or, or a person of colour.

Yani: 37:39

Yeah, you just have to, basically everyone has to work harder to get to the search, because so I've been recently going down a rabbit hole of like diversity in AI. And the datasets that everyone's trained on, it's literally just like Western data. And if if those marginalised communities don't exist in the data pool, you're not going to go first. So like it's you're working against anyway. But yeah, but something that you do is you do just you disrupt like, you disrupt all the algorithm because like your, your platform, and like your social media, your Instagram, your Tik Tok, you are really like, yeah, you're disrupting that narrative, and demystifying, as you said, so, really,

Nikita: 38:23

and it's not something that we should, it's not something that I would have, it would have been in my dream to be working on, to be honest, it would have, it was initially my dream to kind of become a successful yoga teacher and be able to help people in the ways that I do make this has brought with it. Another way that I can help people because of people feeling excluded, so I can kind of make things a bit more inclusive and diverse and more accessible. That, again, white privilege gives you that opportunity. And that platform to stand up and teach yoga and not have to worry about the other parts of it. Like what I talk about is worth if you do have that privilege, kind of speaking about where you can as well, and kind of asking where were our teachers of colour? Or where's the, where, where's the representation of bipoc in your studio, or at this festival or in this brand. And their ways of kind of, like earlier today, actually, I went to the gym and my PT. He was like, I don't really read your posts in too much detail, but I know what you're talking about. And so when I had a client who came to me who said they wanted to do puppy yoga, and he said, Why would you do that? Like why would and he explained to them from seeing my posts that how wrong that is. And it's kind of these little things that make people even if you think that it's not doing anything by you mentioning it does trigger something in some way plants a seed, and then they might they'll become aware of it. And that's the whole point of this practice as well as to make people more aware and more conscious.

Yani: 40:13

Yeah, we've got yoga allies now. That's cool.

Faustine: 40:21

Um, one quick thing that we were talking about earlier with NF. Yanni when you're talking about barley, for example, and locals being priced out of their own area and things like that. I was wondering, Nikita if you feel like there's, we've talked a lot about people being excluded from yoga before because of their body size, for example, or their ethnicity or things like that. Is there maybe a question about class as well and like, is there something that we can do because go go, if you think about kind of like the the image of its rich white women, or at least in a well have white women? So is there something that we can do to make your game more accessible to classes as well to lower socioeconomic classes? Because yoga is expensive, and classes are expensive. So some people might be priced out of it, I guess, is that something that we can work to change? And how?

Nikita: 41:10

Yeah, I mean, I think there are loads of ways. And I'm constantly working on trying to find ways as well, because I don't know everything. And there are certain topics that as a teacher, I can only kind of, discuss, talk about or advocate for at a time. So it's hard to kind of say that I'm going to be like, the face of advocating LGBTQ and then the space of advocating people have larger bodies in the face, but paying people of colour and for me, I think focusing on one thing at a time is really important, in kind of getting us back to at least kind of like a stable place where people are aware of how inaccessible this practice is. Yeah, class and cost ties into traditional yoga as well. And it's worth kind of looking into all of that. And as you said, it is it is delivered to upper class white women. And if you are a teacher who's putting practices out there, maybe having like, I have a YouTube, which is obviously free classes for people. So that that's one thing that helps. And then second thing is if you have if your teacher who has a membership, maybe having a tiered membership, and to make it more accessible for people who might not be able to afford a membership, that's 20 pound a month, so maybe making it like 11 pounds for people. And there are a lot of teachers as well, who, if you drop them a message, I think they have it on their website that they give like a discount, or they they just accept donations for their teaching. So that when you do get into like looking for more diverse teachers, usually you will find it becoming more accessible. So that's for kind of teachers from the bipoc community, because there are a lot of us, and not just me, there are low to have. My platforms aren't even set up. My membership isn't even set up yet. But there are loads who have theirs and up and running, and they they have accessible ways of being able to pay for it. Or if it then you're allowed to reach out to them and let them know that you might be struggling and they can help you in some way.

Yani: 43:58

Yeah, so important, especially in the cost of living. Where I think's going up. And I know people shouldn't have to sacrifice something that is like giving them that healing.

Nikita: 44:08

Yeah, exactly.

Faustine: 44:10

I was wondering just because we're talking about maybe people, you know, have different who've never done yoga before, who might feel excluded by it? Or who might be a little bit scared of it. Yeah, what would you say to someone who feels like Yoga is not for them? That yoga is excluding them? But who would like to try it, though? How would you advise them to get into it?

Nikita: 44:32

Yeah. Well, there's, yeah, so essentially, a beginner and there are billions of people who already practice yoga around the world, but I feel like whatever that number is, would probably double if we had this practice, looking like it or being not just looking like but being more accessible. Because beginners would want to come into it. And they are turned away because of what they see. And then, and a lot of, I have friends as well who have said, like, Oh, I could never do yoga, I'm not flexible enough. And then I really, it's it's kind of a dangerous narrative as well, because then they really plant that in their head and they're really like, I can't even touch my toes or like, I can't even bend down. And so I can't do yoga. But yoga isn't just a physical postures and not just Asana. We can do breath work, which is yoga we can practice more diverse, like I've said, which is yoga. Practice practising yoga by incorporating it into your daily life. Like something that everyone knows are the yamas and niyamas, which are the moral Code of Ethics codes of conduct, like when a taken in practice, was just living. So looking at alternative ways of practising rather than just focusing on an Asana, because that's the only way to practice yoga. And if it is awesome that you really do want to practice, but you're turned away from it as well, when looking at practices that are slower, and maybe more subtle, because the more subtle and slower the practice is, in my opinion, the more effective it has been for you to heal, physically and emotionally and mentally.

Yani: 46:39

Yeah, I think another thing I think, as well about I think it's really important for beginners. And this is something that was a barrier for me, I think, was like, clothes and equipment. So you go, for example, I, you go to Westfield, like just down the road from me. So you go to Westfield, and you just walk ourselves like there's Lululemon. They're sweaty Betty. And they're having all these really like, expensive yoga clothes, I remember just walking past, I was like, I can't do that, well, if I turn up, and people will judge me for my clothes. And I think it's important that you just need to know that like, it's fine, just turn up, it doesn't matter how you look. Yeah.

Nikita: 47:23

And it ties into that whole conversation of it being only accessible to white upper class women, and you feeling excluded from it. In that sense, as well, you there is no yoga attire that you have to conform to. And you should be able to wear whatever you want, as long as you're. And those are just kind of, I feel like social media as kind of just made that a thing. And also, the hyper sexualization of yoga has kind of led to that as well. To be unable to like practice in like the skimpy us outfit or the say that you don't, I don't wear them, it just means that there's also no maybe no need to like spend hundreds of pounds on an outfit, just to kind of, I've been there that I have done that. And I used to support those brands that I will no longer the blank non no longer support now, because I know, but again, it's just awareness. So kind of just really looking into or making yourself aware of how those brands are lacking representation. Colour in what they actually stand for, because if they're using yoga in their name, and they're not honouring the roots of the practice in any way, or making it accessible and inclusive to people, then why should you support them? Yeah, that's, that's something that I struggled with the like early on in my, in my yoga journey as well, because I just thought that that would make me a good teacher, but I like kind of fit that mould having that expensive outfit with that brand name on it, and being able to get into the splits or handstand. That really don't matter. Because, like I said, this practice is an internal practice. That's not really going to get you anywhere. And maybe that ties into maybe more gym culture and stuff. But yeah, not it doesn't really go with like the values of yoga. Yeah,

Faustine: 49:50

yes, it can. So kind of entrenched in capitalist culture now that they're putting profits above authenticity on day. And that's basically what's causing a lot of issues that that yoga is having. Yeah. Obviously, you came to yoga, through assignors, because you didn't realise that some of the things that you'd been going up there, you'd grown up doing well already yoga. So when you kind of like started to look at your practice as every single part of yoga, and when you did your teacher training and everything, was there everything that you had to unlearn any kind of misconceptions about yoga, or any kind of worries or anything that you had to unlearn?

Nikita: 50:37

Yeah, quite, quite a few. I had to unlearn myself. So there was that misconception of just having to be super strong and flexible, to be able to practice or To be good enough to teach even. But obviously, that's not true. Like you. I did focus on that a lot before as well when I did it, it doesn't really get you anywhere because you just end up looking for yoga in the wrong places and practising it the, in the least authentic form. And so maybe just even in in like terms of when, what we were just talking about, like, when I started and having to be in a yoga outfit, I thought that that's what you have to, like wear to practice. And it's not actually that's not actually the case. Like I prefer wearing gym clothes or leggings or work or like a bra that because but just for the simple fact of sometimes I feel like baggy trousers might trip over while I'm like doing an Asana or like a baggy t shirt might just get in the way of like my interestI, which is gave when I'm like, facing downwards. So that's why I prefer them in a practice. But obviously, again, there's no set set attire for for the practice. And I feel like those are the biggest misconceptions that that leads people away from practising yoga.

Yani: 52:26

Yeah, the baggy trousers thing that hit me hard there because like when I when I started doing some yoga, I'm a massive klutz. So I need to get tangled up and just like just fall or trip or something. So yeah, that that hit me harder.

Nikita: 52:44

It's actually happened before. So your big toe gets caught in in the trousers? Yeah, I might as well just, yeah, not not practice wearing baggy pants.

Faustine: 53:00

Thank you, again, so much for being here today for telling us your story. And teaching us a little more as well. You know, being a white person myself, I've definitely come to yoga from that angle. And really interesting to learn more about it. And I think the point that you made about continuously educating ourselves, and learning and searching things out and not just being content with the first yoga teacher that we see on Google and actually digging a little bit deeper. And I guess digging towards the roots of they're very, like physical images and but getting to those roots of yo guys is really important. So thank you so much for having that conversation with us today. I guess before Before we finish, would you be able to maybe recommend some resources for people who are interested to go in and have a look or any other yoga instructors to people but then people can follow to diversify their feed and stop that process of research?

Nikita: 53:57

Yeah, so am I have a tick tock page, Nikki yoga so and I Kyo GA, and the same name for my Instagram and YouTube. YouTube is where you can find my practices, which are quite beginner friendly. So there, there are loads of different ones. And you could you can find them all on the app. But the resources that I have, are mostly on Tik Tok. So I have a resources playlist on there where you can find loads of other native yoga teachers and teachers who are inclusive, and also on my Instagram where I've done a few posts, recommending books and teachers as well.

Faustine: 54:44

Amazing. Thank you. I think your Instagram Tiktok and YouTube in the description of the podcast. People can go and check you out. Definitely. Thank you. Thank you so much again. This has been your container anymore with Nikita, who is fantastic yoga instructor. And yeah, hope the listeners enjoyed this. And yeah, see you next month for the next podcast.