Diversifying Group: 0:27

(Different voices speaking) Please stop all this woke agendas, it's political correctness gone mad. Sorry, thought police! You're sucha snowflake, Surely all lives matter? (record scratch) Ah, did those sound familiar? Here on you can't say anything anymore. we'll unpack the nuances of these comments and bring sidelines lived experiences to the forefront, brought to you by Diversifying Group.

Naomi: 0:53

Hi, everyone. Welcome to this months podcast. And today we've got a very special guest. But before we start, I'm your host, my name is Naomi. My pronouns are she/they, this month, we've got a very special guest. He's a well known TikToker. He is a very keen football fan. And also he's very keen on the gym. So if you'd like to introduce yourself?

Toby: 1:11

Yep, so I'm Toby or BlindTobes online, my pronouns are he/him. And yeah, as Naomi said, I'm a I'm a Tiktoker, I work in social media and play a lot of blind football on the side.

Naomi: 1:21

Brilliant. Yeah, so we just want to get started. Yeah. Could you just tell me a bit about your TikTok? Why did you start it? You know, how to use it as a creative sort of entertaining out sort of tool? And I know you obviously use it for raising awareness as well. Yeah. Can you just tell our listeners about that, please?

Toby: 1:36

Yeah, absolutely. So I started a few months ago, so about four months ago now. And it all started because a clip of myself at a comedy show went viral on a compilation account. And there were lots of funny comments about me in the audience. Obviously, I'm blind and people weren't believing that I was blind or saying why is he got sunglasses? I decided to make a video off the cuff just answering my questions. I've never been on TikTok before. And somehow overnight, it just went absolutely viral. And I decided why not more? Naturally, there were more questions on that video. So I thought why not spread awareness and, you know, maybe get an audience in the in the process. And yeah, now it's evolved into something where my videos can be educational and very serious and talking about topics like mental health, or they can be absolutely daft and ridiculous. For example, I just posted one the other day where I was using my cane in the ocean to like paddle myself on a paddleboard. So yeah, it's a mixed bag on my account, but I love doing it.

Naomi: 2:35

Yeah, amazing. I think I saw that clip as well. And it was, was it you holding up your cane? Because the comedian was asking like, well, I can't remember exactly what they said.

Toby: 2:45

What's your favourite disability? He had cerebral palsy himself. He was obviously making jokes about cerebral palsy as disabled people do. And, yeah, he's asked me in the audience, what's your favourite disability? And I just hold up my cane. And that got a good reaction, I suppose.

Naomi: 3:00

So I guess in this sense, the kind of the fame or the call was kind of thrust upon you really?

Toby: 3:07

Yeah. I mean, I've always wanted to do something in social media. I've always thought of YouTube. And everyone has told me you should have YouTube. I don't know why. Maybe it's because I can just waffle. But yeah, it just came across really, really suddenly. And, you know, I got 30,000 followers in sort of two weeks or so. So, yeah, really, really crazy. And the traction has been amazing. And I'm really grateful for the audience, even if it was just kind of flung out of nowhere.

Naomi: 3:35

That's absolutely amazing. And, you know, I guess that's obviously just speaks to something about your content that really must be speaking to a lot of people. I mean, I guess, you know, that kind of rolls my next question, which is about what's your kind of favourite video that you've made? And why really?

Toby: 3:52

That is a great question. I've made lots and lots of videos, I was just talking this question every day now for a few months. So there's a lot to pick from. I think there's a couple of ways to answer this. My favourite video, just in general was a video that I made of me talking about how I decorate my flat as a blind person. And I'd sort of say this is a picture of London Bridge in the sunset and it would be a picture of a llama or something. Or here's a signed picture of Mason Mount one of my favourite footballers and it's like some pink leopard or something like that. That was my favourite one cause it was just so English humour. And then the one that I'm sort of the most proud of, I played my first ever blind football match last month, and we got some good footage of that and I scored a goal which I was not expecting at all. It was just really nice to bring some light to what the game was all about and how it's played and the rules and yeah, that one sticks out and I think it always will, because it was such a big event for myself.

Naomi: 4:47

Yeah, I absolutely love both of those videos. The flat one had me obviously cracking up!

Toby: 4:53

Dry humour it was so off the cuff as well. Normally I plan my videos a bit in advance sort of like two or three days but this one was literally 10 minutes before we decided to do it. So it worked out quite well.

Naomi: 5:03

So obviously that was brilliant, I love the football one as well. I think it definitely shed a lot of light on just the sort of range of sports that are out there and sort of different subjects disabilities and things and I think that I noticed all of the comments were like, wow, I never knew this was a thing and this is so interesting and and, you know, I saw a lot of comments about the ball as well specifically about the ball.

Toby: 5:25

Yeah, the ball is mental. It's a, it's a rock solid bolt, it's got metal casing inside. And if you could get in the wrong place, it can really hurt your foot. So people were talking a lot about that. And yeah, the general feedback on that was great, you get some odd comments that are really sort of arrogant or ignorant. But that's just the case in when you're posting videos to a large audience, I guess.

Naomi: 5:47

Yeah, I guess just as a human, I'm sort of curious about how you kind of deal with those kind of comments. Because, you know, overwhelmingly, it feels like your audience is very positive. But you know, as you mentioned, I'm sure that there are some, you know, some what to say, heads in the crowd, that sort of ignorance or sort of blase about things.

Toby: 6:11

Yeah, I mean, I think working in social media, you have to have a thick skin, or you have to develop a thick skin. If you let things affect you, then it's probably not the space for you to sort of be in front of an audience. And I'm so so lucky. But my audiences actually incredible. Even people that have never seen my content before are largely positive and give me really good feedback on the videos. But obviously, I do get some hate comments, or some comments that just ridiculously stupid. But yeah, I've got thick skin that just bounced off of me, I find them funny. If anything, it makes me want to do videos more, because most people just need to be educated or maybe they're misinformed. But yeah, they can be annoying, and sometimes they get repetitive. But yeah, I think I'm just the right kind of person to deal with that type of thing. But overall, as I said, my audience is absolutely incredible.

Naomi: 7:02

Yeah, and I guess having a dry sense of humour helps as well, sort of battles or kind of silly comments.

Toby: 7:08

Absolutely. I mean, there's nothing you can say to me, really, that will offend me, I'll just laugh it off and call you an idiot. You know, I mean, so. Yeah.

Naomi: 7:17

Particular that one about when you said that your friends got you a colouring book? And then got your other friend who is deaf? Was it a CD,

Toby: 7:25

A CD? Yeah, it was really good CD as well. I'm quite jealous. You got it? And kind of Sorry, go on.

Naomi: 7:32

Oh, what was it?

Toby: 7:34

It was something like the 100 best hits of the 80s. And I like a bit of 80s music, there was a bit of bit of everything going on there. So yeah, I'm jealous. But that's just what most disabled people have is that dark sense of humour. That's how we get by, You know, if you don't laugh, sometimes you'll cry, maybe you know what I mean?

Naomi: 7:51

I guess laughing is sort of the, the way to sort of communicate to people and to get through to people, but also get them to understand on a deeper level, potentially,

Toby: 8:01

I think it's a really good way of getting that deeper level to come out. Because so, you know, people naturally tread on eggshells, and they want to ask questions that might feel silly or offensive. So when you make light of a situation like disability, and, you know, can make people laugh with it, I think that can help in making people more comfortable. And, you know, asking questions is great, because ultimately, that will help everyone in the long run.

Naomi: 8:26

Yeah, I love that, you know, sort of, it's not something that you've asked for, necessarily, but it's something that you see is helping the wider community. That's brilliant. I guess my sort of other questions would be about, you know, what is some of the coolest things that you've done? With your online presence? Obviously, you mentioned the football was very meaningful to you. Is there anything else that you've done? That's been? Super cool?

Toby: 8:48

That's a great question. I think the opportunity to work with some amazing brands, is really something I've never ever, you know, take for granted. I was a massive Gymshark fan, for many years now. And they reached out to me very early on into my, I mean, social media career, if you want to call it that. So work with brands like that has been amazing. I've been able to, you know, go to cool places and film, you know, episodes for YouTube and other social media platforms. That's been really cool. And just meeting other people, I never knew how big you know, tick tock, especially was for having disabled creators. And, you know, a lot of them make amazing content and also have amazing audiences. So yeah, I've been able to meet a lot of people and make many, many friends actually, from it, which is really, really cool.

Naomi: 9:39

That's amazing. And I guess that speaks to kind of, I remember that you had a video about someone asking you about, oh, if you could wake up tomorrow, and sort of this never happened. I remembered you also saying something onto there about seeing all the people that like you've met through this or the experiences you've had an everything. I don't know if that is that sort of honestly, along a similar way?

Toby: 10:27

I mean, I get the question a lot, like, you know, if, if you could get your vision back tomorrow, or if it wouldn't have never to happen, you know, would you take that? And for me, the answer is no. You know, where I'm at now, I never knew I never thought in a million years. I'd be sat here doing what I'm doing. You know, I mean, so I feel so privileged and lucky and the opportunity that I've got, it's amazing, and that would never happen if If I wasn't blind, you know, I'm a pretty average guy otherwise

Naomi: 10:56

You're talking yourself down sounds so much. Guys, I'm regular guy like you, I've got Gymshark sponsorship!

Toby: 11:04

You're very fortunate I'm grateful every day I say it to my girlfriend every single day. I'm so grateful to be where I am.

Naomi: 11:11

That's absolutely amazing. That's, that's really good. And it's, you know, it's such a great perspective to have as well. And the things, I guess, as well by the question would be about sort of, what are the biggest challenges and some of the things that you've learned through your online presence?

Toby: 11:27

The biggest challenges as being a being someone who's obviously in the media a lot, is for creative aspects, you're always on your toes content that isn't well thought out and well put together and generally won't do well, and that's a good thing. But you're having to put a lot of effort into daily content, and obviously opens itself up to other things like Instagram reels, tick tock videos, YouTube videos, YouTube shorts, they all can't be the same, because otherwise you're not going to pull in a new audience. So the creative aspects difficult. And that's definitely, I'm not a creative person. By nature, I'm very sort of analytical. So I guess what I've learned through social media is how to be creative and think outside the box.

Naomi: 12:08

I think there's something about social media, which is so expressive, and it allows people, you know, you're saying that someone isn't stereotypically creative, but it allows them to have a kind of medium and a voice in a way that is so broad, I guess in a way that other mediums don't as much.

Toby: 12:25

Absolutely, as I said, you have to be on your toes, and it's kind of you get forced to be creative, if you want to do well in social media, and I'm a very, very small creator, in the grand scheme of things. And, you know, I've got to keep on being creative. So maybe that's something that's still being nurtured in myself and will grow. For me, that's a really good thing. So I've never really experienced being creative. So, again, I'm grateful for that as well.

Naomi: 12:47

Yeah, that's super cool. I guess as well, like, you know, as your audience kind of grows with you, as well, they're gonna go on this journey with you and see all the creative, the creative, rivers flowing, and all of the sort of new content and things.

Toby: 13:02

So many people from the beginning, actually, I've got lots of emojis, which is great. All the all the names I have comments have been there from from the start. So they've seen me grow, I guess, which is cool for them as well.

Naomi: 13:13

Yeah, it's amazing, I guess, you know, all these sort of other ventures that you're taking on? And everything. I guess I wanted to ask as well, what what kind of, what do you want your audience to take away from watching your content?

Toby: 13:29

I think that, obviously, the main purpose of me doing it is to spread awareness about blind people. And I've always, always had the mentality that blind people are just as capable as sighted people. But obviously, some things we can't do, like, probably not gonna be a pilot. But we have our ways of doing stuff. And quite often, it's not orthodox, but we get there in the end. So I've just wanted to spread that message that actually we are capable, we don't just sit at the home in the dark, you know, listening to Stevie Wonder and feeling sorry for ourselves. Majority of us do, you know, try and get on with things, and we are just normal people.

Naomi: 14:06

Listening to Stevie Wonder *laughs*

Toby: 14:08

It's amazing. I've had it before.

Naomi: 14:12

Wow. I mean, of course, or, you know, blind and people listen to the the blind artists, Stevie Wonder, of course, is the only one in the world who can't see of course?

Toby: 14:23

oh, yeah, of course

Naomi: 14:26

He was. It was his generation, and now it's over. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think it just, I guess, I wonder if it's the sort of the, the kind of normality of it sort of showing people the mundanity of the experience. I mean, is that is that something that speaks to you at all,

Toby: 14:49

I'd say mundaneness is a great word. Because to me, my life's not interesting. I've been living this way for a long, long, long time. You know, I've got my got my habits, but I do need to get me through day to day. But people are interested in them. You know, I guess it's intriguing for other people. And that's why it comes across as so amazing and inspirational. But to me, you know, I'm just doing daily things, but you do in a slightly different way. Anyone could do it. Everyone always says, if I was blind, I wouldn't be able to do it. And I'm like, Well, you would, because you'd have to. So, yeah, mundanity is You'd have to - a great word.

Naomi: 15:24

You'd have to, you actually want to be that guy sitting in the bed and listening to Stevie Wonder. You've got to get on with it. I'm afraid you know, it's a really harsh thing to say but it's something that you do just have to do. Yeah, I think that's sort of a funny idea. Isn't it as if that you just you know, if you if you if you did experience vision loss that you would just suddenly now you'd be this person? Yeah. You know, living you wouldn't do anything you know, you just If you don't

Toby: 15:51

lose your personality, you don't lose that sense of self that you've got, you may lose the ability to do tasks in the way that you did them before. But, you know, where there's a will there's a way. So it's all about that kind of personal drive. But you've got you've got to be a certain type of person, I suppose to deal with it. Well,

Naomi: 16:08

yeah, absolutely. I guess Yeah. For the listeners as well. Like I also grew up with my granddad was blind. And he lives alone in his his flat head, like a guide dog as well. And things. And yeah, he used to like, he used to go like baking classes, he'd watch TV and stuff like that. And he was this was back in the days where I didn't know if you had this as well. But there was like this brand back in the day called like, Aladdin. And that was like, before Mac was like the top.

Toby: 16:34

I did, but I know lots of people that did.

Naomi: 16:38

I see apparently, Mac is now the best. I don't know if you can speak to that at all

Toby: 16:43

for accessibility on laptops. Yeah. A lot of people like Mac because it's got a feature called VoiceOver, which comes with all Apple products. So if you've got an iPhone, and you use VoiceOver, it's nice to use Mac and have the same accessibility features like you know, your way around it. I suppose. I use androids kind of software for laptops. So I used something called JAWS. Yes. Like the shock. And yeah, that's the equivalent of Apple's voiceover. But that's just what I was taught. If I had a choice, I probably would have gone with VoiceOver. But, you know, there's loads of stuff out there. There's one that sounds like MDMA. It's not MDMA, but I can't remember what it's called. There's lots of random ones.

Naomi: 17:22

You didn't they just named that as a joke. Sort of like, let's just get that in there. Yeah, literally,

Toby: 17:26

what what acronym can we say? Like? Like, maybe making up a name that comes with a silly acronym is always a good motive isn't

Naomi: 17:34

for everyone? Everyone's fun. things, but yeah, I think there's something Oh, sorry.

Toby: 17:43

No, sure. Why not? Let's go for it. Let's make that brand.

Naomi: 17:48

But, um, I guess my point is that, you know, life is very normal in that sense. It's just, I guess it's sort of, I don't know, is there? Is there any sort of ironic sort of sense in the fact that everyone's like, wow, so inspirational, so cool. When it's just you like a video of you cooking? Or it's a video of you? Like you that's what isn't there where? I think your girlfriend did the video where it's like, you just like dancing or something?

Toby: 18:13

Yeah, I did. I did a silly trend and did a dance and I can't dance. But yeah, I get I get the comments. Yeah, you're so inspirational. And to me, it's obviously it's a lovely compliment to be paid. And I appreciate it. But in my head, I'm just like, Yeah, I'm just picking. I'm just, you know, making magic. And I've been cooking for years. It's nothing, nothing crazy to me. But as I said, people find it interesting because they've never interacted with a blind person before or have very limited interactions with blind people. So that's probably why they find it so cool.

Naomi: 18:41

Yeah, it completely makes sense. I remember that when I was a kid I'd love like my my granddad had like, this is like one of the really like early like voice watches. But it had like animal sounds as well. I don't know if they just thought that like, you know, blind people need animal sounds as well as a human voice over.

Toby: 19:01

We need variety. We need auditory stimulation.

Naomi: 19:04

That's what we need, of course. So naturally, his like, response was, let's pretend that there's like an invisible animal around the house. So he just went around with this, like, watch around his house and just be like, Oh my God, it's over here.

Toby: 19:18

I love that. That's, that's the thing. You can work you into anything when you're when you're blind or disabled, honestly, like anything?

Naomi: 19:25

Exactly, exactly. Thanks, anyways. Yeah, I guess I wanted to ask as well about, you know, what are your kind of goals with what you're doing sort of online? And like what projects have you got coming up next? Like, what do you what do you kind of see for for for Toby's kind of brand? Upcoming?

Toby: 19:44

Yeah, I think I think first of all, why do you just want to continue growing, I've been growing steadily for the past four months, that obviously had a bit of an explosion at the beginning. But the past month has been slower, but linear. And I guess that's all I can ask for. So yeah, to stay consistent with that, and keep growing and then more long term kind of goals is to start YouTube and grow back to the best of my abilities. We'll see where that goes. And if it's not my cup of tea, it's not my cup of tea, but I'm definitely willing to give it a go. And I just want to be more around social media. You know, I'm obviously I've got my own profiles, but I do want to do bigger collaborations with with brands like, I don't know, sporting brands, maybe. And, of course, I do want to progress in blind football as well. I'm hoping to get into the England squad sometime in the next few years.

Naomi: 20:33

Wow, that is that is huge. You know, we'll we'll be seeing you on the TV soon.

Toby: 20:37

Hopefully, you know, I'm really trying to wrack my brain about how blind football can be broadcasted on TV. It's the World Cup next year. And, you know, I'd love for sport to get a lot more attention and So I think they are trying to figure out how that can be put on TV. I think that'd be amazing. So you might see on TV one day,

Naomi: 20:57

we're using all we see, you know, I'm imagining, like, you know, like the American football thing when they like, come in with all the music. And it's like,

Toby: 21:06

it's not quite as theatrical as but I think we Americans try and make it more about entertainment and sport. But I'll see if I can get a theme. So I'm going.

Naomi: 21:16

Yeah, I mean, I actually I guess, I guess there must be other international kind of sports as well, for blind football. I'm guessing it's pretty International, as much as

Toby: 21:25

any any nation you can think of who play football, you know, nationally incited football, there's been the blind football and it's actually a far bigger sport than I ever thought it was. So must be a much bigger sport than anyone who's never seen it before. You know, in their minds. So yeah, we're actually thinking of playing with Gournay in scored soon, which will be interesting. I don't even think gone are going to the sighted world cup this year. So maybe have a blind football team could give them a run for their money? I don't know.

Naomi: 21:56

Wow, I mean, what is it to be a part of, you know, jetting off to these exciting holidays, the UK from Ghana.

Toby: 22:02

I set various funding there. So the boys being done that just got back from the Euros in Italy, they got to the semi finals, and yeah, obviously they were they were put on planes and sent sent over there stayed in hotels, all of that kind of stuff. So not not quite the funding that regular football gets, but at least there is still something of a piggy bank.

Naomi: 22:22

That's so cool. Amazing. And what exciting thing to look forward to.

Toby: 22:28

Yeah, for sure. I can't wait to keep doing it. I fallen in love with the sport. So yeah, hopefully good things to come.

Naomi: 22:35

Did you? I mean, would you like to reveal if you support a team publicly or? Oh, here we are here we obviously see

Toby: 22:43

a big Chelsea fan for those of you who are watching you can't see I'm a massive Chelsea fan.

Naomi: 22:48

I see. I see. So you're Are you one of these? When you come down to London? Are you one of those Chelsea fans on the tube. Now they've got all their gear on?

Toby: 22:56

That would be me. I tried to get to Stamford Bridge, which is the Chelsea Stadium as much as I can haven't been for a while but hopefully next season when it starts up, I'll be on the tube chart in songs and hitting the tube ceilings. That's what we tend to do.

Naomi: 23:10

I feel like at least for my experience in London, Chelsea fans are pretty like pretty true. You know, I've not not personally had any crazy kind of experiences, you know, West Ham fans though, though. They've looked at the tubes so

Toby: 23:23

much honestly West Ham Crystal Palace. Chelsea All right, because I think a lot of our fans are older and maybe a bit more mellow now they've had for hooliganism days back in the 80s or whatever they were in. And we do get a lot of tourism as well at Stamford Bridge I guess because we're quite a big team a lot of like foreign people want to come and watch us so yeah, on the trains we're not too bad but I've had a few altercations on the tubes before with other fans.

Naomi: 23:51

Oh wait I really sort of like

Toby: 23:55

not started by me but there was a couple Crystal Palace fans getting rowdy and they were Chelsea fans on the other end of the carriage so it just got a bit heated for a little bit but it happens it's football you know that's that's what you're there for you can't go and not expect that

Naomi: 24:07

the classic sort of London wore was you know the different teams

Toby: 24:11

that's it that's it but Chelsea come out you know London's blue I don't always stand by that.

Naomi: 24:16

Oh, there we I see you had you heard it here first London is play I mean, I think most of my workplaces Arsenal actually so I don't know if I don't if my work official is this is just the we haven't picked a sponsor yet for the podcast football wise but I think our workplaces pretty solidly solidly arsenal.

Toby: 24:36

I'll have to stay clear if your your work venues and your work do spend

Naomi: 24:43

so much that is handled. No it's not. It's there's no side. Please, please do listen to us do not expect any Arsenal much or please do not be put off by our football orientation.

Toby: 24:53

You just have to sell short wear. If you've got merch coming out with bars and stuff on you're not gonna make many sales on the road.

Naomi: 25:00

I remember my friend that she said that. She doesn't know anything about football, but she just tells people that she supports Arsenal because it ends the conversation. They just look at her and oh, oh, sorry.

Toby: 25:10

Oh, sorry for you. Yeah, yeah, we'll talk about something else now.

Naomi: 25:15

Exactly. Things anyways, yeah. So I guess, sort of moving on a bit. It's only kind of, you know, spoken obviously, about your sort of journey and everything. Is there. Any kind of advice or any kind of I'm sure you probably get some messages all the time saying I want to be a content creator. Is there any advice that you'd give to people about starting up or any sort of tips and tricks that you've learned?

Toby: 25:39

Yeah, for sure. But it's definitely a learning process. You're not going to smash it straightaway. I was very lucky with my first video doing as well as it did. But obviously if I started naturally, like everyone else, I'd be in a different position. Um, you've got to find a topic that you love. And you can talk about every day and a knowledgeable about and it has to give value. You know, you can't give generic opinions on stuff because people have heard that a million times before. So it needs to be providing your listeners or your audience with valuable information, you know, something that they can take away from watching your video. You've also got to be very patient with it. As I said, it doesn't just blow up straightaway most of the time. But also bear in mind that, you know, it can there's always that chance, but it can go go viral. So put as much effort into every video and every bit of content that you bet you make.

Naomi: 26:29

Amazing. Yeah, I guess I guess it's just sort of quality, is it fair to say that quality is a really big aspect, maybe continue? A bit of luck, or

Toby: 26:39

luck is a big part of it. To be fair, you can make a video that you think is absolutely amazing. You want the whole world to see. And the algorithm just goes and says no. So that's happened to me hundreds of times, you know, so yeah, there's, there's a lot of luck in it. And there's the whole quantity over quality argument, I'd go somewhere in the middle and say consistency. But consistently good, if that makes sense. Try and go more to the quality side of that spectrum.

Naomi: 27:08

I'm just curious if it was any particular video that you kind of really enjoyed making, but it wasn't as well received.

Toby: 27:15

That was what I made about kind of exploring what blindness is. So I well, I didn't draw it, my girlfriend drew out the site spectrum of fully sighted to fully blind, and I explained each level of it, and you know, gave information on each level. And that's, you know, it was a relatively long video. But yeah, I thought it would do better than it did. And it's probably my most educational video that I've got. But that's just the way it goes. Sometimes you put out a video, and you're really excited to see how it does. And it just doesn't do what you want it to do. And that's, that's really going to test how committed you are to social media and making content is when the algorithm is not in your favour. Do you stick with it and still post as much as you can? Or do you do quit?

Naomi: 27:58

Yeah, I guess it's just that part of that resilience that you were talking about earlier? Yeah. And thick skinned definitely,

Toby: 28:05

you can't let you can't get fixated on the numbers, you know, one video, especially on Tiktok, where, you know, your your content gets pushed out to a far wider audience, when people follow you, you know, you can't expect videos to consistently get 500k views. And equally, you shouldn't expect them to just get consistently 200 views. You know, you've got to not get fixated on those numbers and just take it day by day. Yeah, absolutely.

Naomi: 28:30

And I think as you mentioned about is, you mentioned that you're potentially upcoming YouTube and things. I mean, are those going to be more educational format? Or will they be kind of more skits and things that we've seen for me, so I think

Toby: 28:45

it will be mainly educational, but I'm gonna have to get a feel of the water, you know, test the water and see what people are into. I might post a few funny videos, maybe not as outrageous on Tik Tok. But yeah, we'll see. I think I'm gonna expand mainly on the things that I talked about on tick tock, just because I've got an opportunity to give more information in the YouTube video and, you know, do a bit more educating. So yeah, it will probably be more likely that there might be some sort of day in the lives or daily, not daily vlogs I can't commit to that weekly vlogs. So yeah, it might be a bit of a mixed bag, maybe some some more blind football, more kind of emphasis on training and things like that, what I'm doing what the sessions look like. So, yeah, we'll see how it goes. I haven't written out a plan for what I'm gonna do. I think I'm just gonna take it week by week.

Naomi: 29:30

Yeah, I think that already sounds super interesting about looking at the training session. So like, I'm already sort of trying to sort of imagine and visualise that.

Toby: 29:38

Yeah, it's, I mean, it's kind of similar. I played football gonna have vision. So I've got kind of that point of view from both sides of the fence of sighted training and blind training. Yeah, it can be carnage sometimes to be fair, and blind football such a brutal sport anyway, like, you come away with a lot of head injuries and you ache for next morning in places you didn't even think you could take. And that's the same with training. If people train intensely then yeah, you're gonna have collision. So I'd say the difference between sighted training and blind training is about physicality aspects.

Naomi: 30:10

I guess I'm just curious as well about the kind of playing by in football, is there a kind of sense of, you know, you said you've had experience of playing sided football online football as well? Is there a sense of is there a different sense of community with each one or is it kind of the same

Toby: 30:25

before I played blind football so before I had my first match and met up with the lads properly because I've never actually trained with the squad before I'd only ever trained with Brandon who's also blind we just trained as a couple, not couple, we're not together, trying to partnership. And then I got into changing which I was expecting it to be really subdued and a bit not quiet, but not necessarily laddy like it is in a regular football changing room. And it was out absolute carnage that people were shouting and laughing everywhere throwing things around. It was ridiculous. If anything, it was more laddy been a been a sighted changing and which really took me by surprise.

Naomi: 31:01

That's yeah, that's very interesting, I guess. I mean, do you find that because you, you have another shared experiences outside of football, it kind of has a bit more kind of connection or bit more community feel?

Toby: 31:14

Yeah, the community is good, because we all know, like, we all know what to expect from each other. And we don't really get that in regular society. You know, people are very, as I said, treading on eggshells around us, and not knowing what to say. Whereas when you're in a community of blind people, you know, it's a free for all. But actually, we tend to focus on anything but blindness. Because quite often in our daily lives, where you have to talk to loads of people about being blind, whereas when we're all together, we will just understand it, we don't have to acknowledge it. So yeah, we just talked about anything other than blindness. Really.

Naomi: 31:46

I guess that makes a lot of sense. It's the sort of the, I guess, the opposite of what people might expect as you don't sit around or be like so how is it for you guys for the last 40/ 30/20/18 years?

Toby: 31:59

Oh, absolutely not. We don't we don't compare what what's on our Stevie Wonder playlists on Spotify?

Naomi: 32:05

My cane is gold. Is yours blue?

Toby: 32:08

Yeah, exactly. No, it is refreshing actually. Because it is just like being with being with your mates down the pub. But you know, I mean, are just more in a very sweaty sense.

Naomi: 32:20

Lovely. I mean, have you connected much with the buying community on TikTok? Yeah,

Toby: 32:26

yeah, yeah, there's a lot of a big percentage of my, we're not a big percentage, but I have a much bigger percentage of blind, but it's been any other creative we've had? Of course I do. But I get a lot of messages, lot of DMS, from people saying thank you, or asking for advice? Or how do you do this? I'm looking at going to the gym, how do you access bad things like that. And I also get a lot of questions from parents as well who have blind children saying, you know, your contents really helping us and putting us at ease, because we thought that our kid would be, you know, stuck at home for the rest of their life and would depend on us bad you've shown us, but there is a future potentially for them.

Naomi: 33:06

Yeah, how does that make you feel what to hear to hear parents saying that to you?

Toby: 33:11

It's stressful, because I'm not liable for that kid's future, just because I've done well doesn't mean they'll do? Well, I think that's a big point to kind of acknowledge, it's gonna, it's still gonna be really, really hard work for the parents and the child. It also makes me proud as well, obviously, that I'm reaching most people, I'm reaching them enough, you know, to the point where they want to message me and tell me about it. And I also see a lot of my own parents in those messages, because they were so worried about me when I was younger. So I guess it's nice to be that kind of reassuring figure for them.

Naomi: 33:44

I guess in a sense that it's kind of gone a bit with them, would you say it's going a bit further full circle now you're in the sort of more adult position? And then kind of looking back at your experiences potential?

Toby: 33:55

Yeah, definitely. My My parents were so you know, nervous about my future when I was younger. And obviously, I was as well growing up knowing that I was losing my vision now, you know, it's totally unknown what's going to happen once you do lose your vision. So, yeah, I guess it has come full circle. Now. It's kind of nice to reflect on that and kind of look at how far I've come since then.

Naomi: 34:16

Yeah, I mean, what would it have meant to you to have? I mean, obviously, back in the day, we didn't have, we did have YouTube in 2007. But, you know, if you'd had like, say, somebody like you on TV, or something like that, but what does that meant to

Toby: 34:31

the world? Honestly, growing up, I didn't have that role model. I had role models in terms of, you know, celebrities I liked or footballers I liked, or, you know, even things like my dad or my mom, but there was never someone who was, you know, going through the experience of blindness, but I could look up to, and that is part of the reason why I'm doing it. It's what I do. I don't like to label myself as a role model. Because, you know, I don't like to put myself in that position and say, oh, yeah, listen to what I say type thing. But I'd like to be that figure that people can look up to and think, Okay, well, he's gone through this. Hopefully, I'll be okay, too.

Naomi: 35:06

I guess it sort of harks back to what we're talking before about the kind of normality of your of your life, you know, you you you play football you live in a flat with your girlfriend, you know, it's kind of maybe a part of that as well as what speaking to parents that it's so, so professionally normal.

Toby: 35:22

Yeah, yeah, of course. You know, I always always tried to say that I'm nothing special. You know, I just live a normal life. I mean, my job is not not necessarily normal, but other than what I do for a job, you know, I am just a regular guy next door, you know, there's nothing nothing to me that people should be like, Oh my God, that's incredible type thing. I just live my life, get on with it and enjoy myself.

Naomi: 35:43

Just Toby from Stevenage.

Toby: 35:45

Stevenage now now residing in Chichester.

Naomi: 35:50

Yeah Toby from Chichester now.

Toby: 35:52

Sounds a bit more pushed, isn't it?

Naomi: 35:54

Yeah, I guess I did. I mean, I mean we really get into sort of British stereotypes now with with with Stevenage versus Watford versus St. Albans,

Toby: 36:04

or the Hertfordshire triangle there. That's very different walks of life from St. Albans and Stevenage. Yeah, so

Naomi: 36:12

actually, if any of our listeners that are not from the UK that are listening, there is a sort of area. How did you find Toby as a native, you know, Stevenage but how would you describe it?

Toby: 36:22

So obviously Hertfordshire is a county in the UK, but it's just above London. And yes, so it's a really polarising County. You've got some of the nicest places to live in the UK, like St. Albans or Harpenden or Hartford, really nice, really expensive. Not much crime. But then you've also got terrible Can I swear on this podcast?

Naomi: 36:46

Unfortunately, no.

Toby: 36:48

We've got rubbish places to live. And you could probably imagine the language I'd use. Like Stevenage, for example. It's not great. That's where I'm from. It's a bit rough. You know, and it's really crazy. You know, there is a lot of law of crime there. And you have to have your wits about you. So yes, very, very polarising County, Hertford. Sure.

Naomi: 37:10

I guess I'm actually you made a good point is I mean, do you think that the kind of your location is what kind of added to your parents kind of worry about you at all?

Toby: 37:21

Yeah, maybe actually, maybe. I mean, I always had a good upbringing. Regardless of where I live, I'm very privileged, you know, to be in that position I was growing up. I think it was more about what I'd actually do with myself rather than Oh, God is gonna go out and get you know, into an accident or something or someone's going to mock him stuff like that. But it's definitely contributed to my character now growing up in a in an area like that, because I'm a little bit rough around the edges. And actually living down here and going to uni and Chichester has changed my accent slightly, I used to have a much rougher accent. But now I'm a bit more articulate.

Naomi: 37:58

I say can you you know, is there any sort of demonstration you give us of your previous self

Toby: 38:03

is kind of how I'm speaking now, but just dropping syllables. So if I if I could try and transition back into it, if I go back into it, it's a bit more like this. You know, I mean, like a bit more sex a bit more kind of just speaking without syllables, drop oddities. You know, we make you make your coffee and a kettle, you know, you eat your dinner at the table, all that kind of stuff.

Naomi: 38:23

Classic home counties voice.

Toby: 38:25

That's it. Yeah, it's literally the same as sex just a bit more. A bit more North London.

Naomi: 38:31

Classic, very, very classic.

Toby: 38:33

It's definitely it's definitely a lot softer now of like, you can hear the difference in how I'm speaking now. Like you just pronounce things more. And I guess that's a good thing in terms of what I do. I mean, it makes me I don't know, I don't know if it's a good thing. Or it's not really for me to say is it?

Naomi: 38:50

Yeah, actually did linguistics uni so I think this is this you're gonna go into a little how long are the past podcast? I think that socially we, you know, place different values on accents. But really, you know, they all have inherent value. They all show different histories and they're all pretty interesting.

Toby: 39:06

And they all can change, which is the crazy thing. And it's crazy. I have so many accidents in such a small place.

Naomi: 39:13

Yeah, I think that's one of the things that people just love about the UK is that you go over to the next town and they sound completely different. That's -

Toby: 39:19

it Yeah, you've got Stevenage where I'm from and then down the road where my where my dad lives is welling garden and that's that's a bit more Oh, well

Naomi: 39:25

in Wellyn Garden City.

Toby: 39:27

It's a nice bit again and that it's like a polarising town in a polarising county but it's lovely places of wedding garden there's there's some some nasty places wanting garden so yeah, you know you've got totally different accents just 1010 minutes down the road it's crazy.

Naomi: 39:42

And obviously stuff those people in the other time because our time to this

Toby: 39:48

I'm not going to start any debates because know where I'm from something bad will happen.

Naomi: 39:55

So how to start brand yourself as Toby from Chichester not taking once all

Toby: 39:59

people have known me to be fair, people don't know but I'm, I'm from, you know, near London. And you know, they probably think but I've grown up in Chichester, which is obviously 100 miles away from where I actually did grow up.

Naomi: 40:10

Well, here we are. We are you heard it first on the podcast. You've got we got the insights. Exactly. Insights the buyer. Anyways, yeah, so just before we close up, I guess something I wanted to ask about is you know, it's a sad thing. Is it something the audience would know about you obviously, that you're from St. Evenange ? Sorry I was about to call it St. Evenage, Stevenege! from Stevenege, But you know, obviously we know you play football you spent time you're really into it. You've just recently got back into the gym. Are there any other things that you know people wouldn't say no about you?

Toby: 40:44

That's a great, it's obviously I'm very, very open online. I kind of have to be To be an engaging person, it's, it's important to be yourself and talk about all aspects of your life. I do not I make myself a little bit vulnerable here, actually. So I'm a vastly positive person. You know, I try and find the silver lining in any situation. But for the past few months, actually, I've been suffering with some chronic illness. And I think it just goes to show that, you know, some people may come across as happy as Larry online. And actually, they might be really, really suffering behind the scenes. So that's probably something people didn't know about me, as was I've been quite ill. For the past few months, we'll go with that one.

Naomi: 41:31

I'm sorry to hear that you've been sort of, I guess, quietly well, for you, maybe for your own protection as well. But you know, I hope that you are receiving the help and support and treatment that you need for this time.

Toby: 41:43

Yeah, we're getting there. It was a kind of a burn a very, very serious case of burnout from University and the gym, I was doing a lot of a gym, don't have social media presses pressured me into going to the gym a lot. That's another conversation for another day. All the social media stuff as well was at the same time. So I got a very severe case of burnout. And that gave me some some residual effects that have lasted for the past few months. But we're on the mend now. And I'm able to play football again and go to the gym. Again, as long as I don't overexert myself. I should be all good.

Naomi: 42:19

Well, thank you for sharing that. I think. As you mentioned, on your, your intro, that you know, mental health is one of the big things that you speak about. And you know, thank you for sharing that on this podcast about, you know, the effects of burnout.

Toby: 42:33

Yeah, yes. It's very under discussed topic, I think burnout. And actually, it's far more common than people think. So maybe, maybe that's something I'll integrate into my content somewhere down the line, when I've actually figured out what's going on with it.

Naomi: 42:47

I think that can be part of the confusing part, isn't it? When this sort of as it's happening, it's quite difficult to just realise that it is burnout.

Toby: 42:55

Yeah, besides a very, very obscure, and if you don't, don't know much about it, you're not going to spot it. I didn't spot it. And I study psychology where we talk about burnout a lot, you know, occupational burnout, more than physical burnout, maybe, but, you know, there, there's parallels that you can draw from them. So, yeah, if I missed it, and I study psychology, then I'm sure many other people have missed it and suffered with it in the past and just brushed it off as stress.

Naomi: 43:19

I love irony, "If I missed it and I study psychology." -

Toby: 43:23

Because I'm so good at.

Naomi: 43:27

I guess the irony is that, you know, it can be hard to kind of see things with ourselves.

Toby: 43:31

Yeah, definitely. And when you're so I had the blinkers on, I had goals that I wanted to achieve, obviously, with social media and University. And I guess the gym was also a personal endeavour that I was really focusing on. So I had the blinkers on and just wanted to reach those targets. And yeah, missed the signs that were indicating that I definitely should have laid back a little

Naomi: 43:51

bit. Yeah, I think, you know, that's, you know, I guess it's Hindsight is 2020, isn't it? Exactly, I guess I'm just curious as well just sort of workloads about your sort of experiences at uni and things, you know, accessibility on the course and everything.

Toby: 44:09

Yeah, that's, that's a great question. My unit was absolutely amazing, actually, was the main reason why I went to Chichester, one that had amazing, an amazing Counselling Psychology course. Secondly, the accessibility that they had in place was incredible. And it they superseded any university that I visited on that level. So they were able to give me human support. So it's like a note taker in my lectures, and a technical assistant for my statistical, like analysis modules, because the programme that we use to do statistics was not compatible with my screen reader. So obviously, I wouldn't have been able to do that independently, but they gave me you know, someone for many hours a week to go through these statistical packages, and, you know, helped me, you know, get the results that I needed. And that was the same for my dissertation as well, which was amazing. And even even little things like at the beginning of uni, and they gave me a personal guide is what they called it, who took me around campus helped me learn where everything was, so I could walk around independently, and they gave them like a budget. So they were able to come to the canteen and get lunch with me or go to the Student Union and have a beer type thing and figure out how I need to do all of that. And I don't think I would have got that many other units to be fair, so shout out to University of Chichester, they are absolutely incredible in that sense.

Naomi: 45:32

That's amazing to hear that you had such a great experience.

Toby: 45:34

It was honestly I'd never never expected it because when you're in sixth form made such a big emphasis on independence and you're going out there alone, you know, you've got to do everything yourself. And I was like, okay, that's fine. It's just going to take a lot of hard work for myself and I will was a little bit nervous about it. But straightaway, I had conversations with the uni over the summer before I went there, and they put me so at ease. I literally was so blase about going I expected to be a little bit anxious. I'm not an anxious person, really. But I was, you know, I was expect to have a little bit of nerves. And I went in there and like, you know, Jack the lad not giving any any care in the world because I knew that everything was gonna be okay. So that's how how good of a job I did even before I went to the unit, even before I was a student.

Naomi: 46:18

I mean, that's, that's even even better. I mean, the fact that it's even pre-going, that you had this kind of comfort and ease of knowing.

Toby: 46:25

Yeah, absolutely. They contacted me as well. I literally, I didn't have to contact them at all. You know, I went to an open day, said hi, I'm Toby, I'm blind. What can you do for me? They're like, okay, we can do this. And then a few weeks later in the in the summer before I'd even applied to go to Chichester, they were saying, let's just see what we can get in place. Doesn't matter if you're not coming in. But, you know, we'll see what we can do to put you at ease and hopefully you'll decide to come to Chichester. You know, I was sold straightaway.

Naomi: 46:53

Wow. Even before you got Wow. Even for you apply. That's

Toby: 46:57

literally just from an open day. They were in my emails give me phone calls, virtual meetings, invited me down to have like bespoke tours of the campus. And oh, my lectures, it was absolutely incredible.

Naomi: 47:08

Thank goodness, I just run out of the carpets and just go

Toby: 47:12

honestly, they couldn't have done it. They threw the kitchen sink at it. It was it was incredible.

Naomi: 47:16

Well, yeah, pick up to to just see diversity then for my experience. And I mean, how great is it, you know, to be the guy helping you and go home and appear with you,

Toby: 47:26

honestly, and even use it right? You know, we're still friends to this day, he was a master student at the time, he was a couple years older than me. And, you know, before this guy must be good. He seemed like a nice guy. So send them out to the new blind student. And, you know, that was just incredible, because it felt like I had a friend before anyone had even moved into Canvas. But let me move in a few days early as well to avoid for brush and to get familiar with, you know, the campus and the settings in the city. And just just ridiculous. Really? Wow, that's amazing. It blows my mind. Just recalling it now actually makes me remember how much they did for me.

Naomi: 48:03

Yeah, that's absolutely me. I mean, you know, I remember my orientation, actually, as well, because we had also had a few other blind students as well. And I went, I'm gonna be honest, they weren't great not to throw them under the bus or anything, but they were not. I mean, they had, you know, their guides, but they didn't Yeah, they didn't do anything like that, like that in the moving in early or anything like that. And, yeah, that's yeah, they

Toby: 48:28

because, ya know, they're obviously, you can only do what's in your remit. You know, I mean, if you if you can't let someone move in early, you can't. It's just the way it goes. But, you know, some places, you know, just have better facilities and better structures in place to make things happen like that,

Naomi: 48:43

I guess. And I think that the people, they see my unit, the people they hired to be the guides, often, like they tend to turn up late something, or they wouldn't, they wouldn't know what the plan is, I can just see how he's rolling his eyes, they would know the plan is so they wouldn't know. Because obviously, maybe some other people have already left to go to whatever activity is and then they get into the game, they're far behind. And it's just, you know, those kind of things do impair your social experience.

Toby: 49:05

Definitely being blind is one of the most isolating disabilities you can you can have. Because most of the time you don't know where people are, who's in the room, you know, where people are sitting. Where's the bar wherever toilets, you know, I mean, you rely on people a hell of a lot. So to not have everything in place must have been extremely, you know, anxiety provoking for most students.

Naomi: 49:28

Yeah, absolutely. And I remember I remember one of the people just saying, like, Well, I think I'll be okay. I was. She was just very cool. She had a very kick, a sense of humour one time, and she asked me to guide her and I thought, you know, being the big question, I am, I grew up, I had a blind granddad, I'm fine at guiding people. And I didn't realise she was a lot taller than me. Like, I'm really short. And so I accidentally, like, bumped her head on the doorframe, because I'm so much shorter than her. And she was like, wow, you're rubbish. Now was like, You know what, I'll sit down because there was me, you know, being so full of myself. And then, you know, it was she was like, Yeah, you don't have to do that again. And I was like, You know what, that's probably for best.

Toby: 50:15

Honestly, it's your worst when you get the height difference, because I'm relatively too I'm over six foot. And that's without the quiff. So I always I hit on things like tree branches and signs and whatnot, especially if I'm being guided by someone who's shorter. I've got a friend who's four foot 11 who sometimes guides me so that's absolutely outrageous. Guiding stressful though.

Naomi: 50:38

I'm not quite far for them and I'm like five foot but just just above

Toby: 50:43

it by even if I ever come back to seven hours you're you're not doing a garden job.

Naomi: 50:48

Sorry, yeah. It's not because I'm you know, against helping people. It's just that my height prohibits me from doing good job was any other sort of things you wanted to speak about specifically before just end the podcast?

Toby: 51:05

Let me think about that. Yeah, sure knows.

Naomi: 51:09

Anything you wanted to promote particularly or just anything?

Toby: 51:12

We've covered everything. I think we've we've, we've gotten a long one today. It's been a good podcast.

Naomi: 51:17

Okay. Well, I'm glad you enjoyed.

Toby: 51:20

Yeah, no, I think I think we're good. I think I've said all I need to say,

Naomi: 51:23

I'm brilliant. Well, okay. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Toby. It's been an absolute pleasure having you. I think a lot of things you've spoken about are not only funny, but they also will resonate a lot with our listeners and, you know, where can people find your Tik Tok? What, you know, what kind of what's your handle again, for our listeners?

Toby: 51:44

It's blindtobes. So yeah, that's Instagram, Tiktok, and hopefully soon, YouTube.

Naomi: 51:51

Brilliant. Well, thank you again, so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you, and listeners, we'll speak to you in the next episode.

Diversifying Group: 52:01

Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, and would like to support this podcast, please share it with others and leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Keep up to date with what we do at diversifying group@diversifying.com or follow us on social media at diversifying group. See you next time.